Discussion:
The French War Record LOL LOSERS
(too old to reply)
FRED WELLMAN
2003-07-16 01:31:08 UTC
Permalink
[Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:15:12 -0400] "FRED WELLMAN"
Greatly snipped.
The seven years war : humiliation, true ! (I want just highlight the
fact that in north america in 1754, the
french were 85,000 in the "Nouvelle France" and the english people were
1,485,634 in New England...
IN 1763, we lost : India (bar 5 cities), Ohio, Canada, left side of the
Mississipi, Antilles (bar 3 islands) and Senegal (that will be retaken
later)
The facts you posted are true. However how much of it is relevant today.
I
agree the French did help make the outcome of war 1776 come out on the
current US's side and people are grateful. But it was not done for
goodness
huh ... and the USA came for goodness of your heart ? in WWI you came at
the end - BTW the germans were sinking your boat and they tried
"wakwardly" to start a revolt in new mexico
Mexico was not much of a threat. We handled them with very little effort.

IIRC ... and Louis Brandeis
hoped you could help to found a jewish land by helping the english in
palestinia IIRC) (i tell it in a nutshell cause i repreat it for 1-2
years ...) so check it before telling me i'm nut. TIA.
First of why does everything ever done have to benefit the Jews. Secondly I
never resorted to name calling and did not call you a nut.
In WWII we were on your road to Berlin (yeah thank god, hitler and the
axis declaed war top you so you finally felt concerned about Europe and
you European relatives...)
Why are our relatives in Europe our responsibility? We came to America to
get away from them. Did the French fight for their relatives in Louisiana
during our civil war? NO. The British did fight for the French and British
loyalists in Canada during the war of 1812.
of your heart. If the French were on the road to Berlin before D_Day why
did we have to fight Germans to land on the continent?
Hurting the British was the goal. France sold the US the
and what ? ... Napo sold for nothing to continue his European wars and
keep France in a level of zeveryday life bearable ... war costs a lot
.. mainly when you have to keep an army watching a continent (small but
...)
If France sold the land for next to nothing it is not the fault of the US.
It was not a forced sale.
Louisiana purchase. In 1776 the French were a world power today they
still
think they are but they are not.
lol ... you US guys already spiel the same stuff ... why ?
What has France invented since 1940? For good or bad the US figured out how
to split the atom, and put a man on the moon. Name anything near that.
we are not a mega power ... but we are still quite important ... I won't
tell you a lot of exmaples cause i repeat the very same things again and
again ... so do some researches ... only some few facts ...
we are the 4th economic power in th world IIRC ..
And so afraid your culture will not hold up you destroy fast food outlets.
If people did not want them and eat there they would not be open
. we are one of the 5
nations having a permanent seat at the security council (with veto)
Because of misguided US policy after the war.
we are with germany the engine of EU (that we started with 6 others
countries in the 50s on our impetus), we are an important military power
(well of course if we compare with USA ... we are ridiculous but who can
compare with the USA nowadays ... the chinese are numerous but what a
technolical gap IIRC - and i admit the french army is not in a good
state anyway) - we are a space power (with other european nations that
along dacades joined us for the Ariane project" - we are a nuclear power
You just stated you could not do it without other countries and have you put
a man in space.
, we are good in medicine, etc...
We fought generally alone VS the whole Europe and we won, we possessed
almost the whole Europe during 15 yrs, Moscow burnt - who did this
things other than us ?
Germany for one.
yep they did it ... other ones ? (and anyway moscow didn't burn !)
Poland held cut longer than France did in WW 2. despite
wrong.
of your claims the US was doing a lot before Japan attacked the US.
LOL ... you're either a joker or uninformed ... some credible links ?
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450604a.html

http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/pages/t044/t04409.html

Not to mention an embargo against Japan.
1914-1918 : The French army was the major military actor on the Western
front for 4 years. The British took a very active part on that front
for
4 years too. The allies under Marechal Foch's French command eventually
won the war. The American troops massively arrived on the front only 4
months (July 1918) before the end of the war (November 1918).
Western front March 1918 : 174 allies divisions : 99 French + 58
British
+ 12 Belgian + 3 US + 2 portuguese.
Western Front November 1918 : 211 Allies divisions : 104 French + 60
British + 30 US + 12 Belgian + 2 portuguese + 2 Italian + 1 Polish.
If the help of the US was not needed why didn't the war end before we
strange question, guy ! why should it have been finished befor you
arrived ? 4 years ... have you seen the stats ? have you seen the number
of US troopers ?
you think you arrived and that the germans were so afraid of the brave
US sioldiers that they fled and decidede to sign an armistice ?
No not our soldier but our supplies. If not for the US entry I doubt
Britain would have stayed in the war. Even so the Prussian subs were
getting better.
inform you... I think it's the better thing you could do ...
entered? Without US intervention France would have lost or be in a
constant
cold war.
I don't think so ... do you know the meaning of Blockade ? do you know
whjat was the economic state of our adversaries in 1918 ?
Stop spitting on the graves of the 1,500,000 dead French soldiers TIA.
Stop allowing the desecration of American Graves.
? ? ? some explanations coming ? i don't understand at all your sentence
Several cemeteries have be vandalized in France. What more explanation do
you need?
...
The USA that entered the war et the end of the war refused to hear
about
The result : Because of the Versailles's treaty as wanted by the USA
That is pure fiction the US told the British and the French that another
war
would come from the treaty. the US wanted a peace like WW2.
some neutral links ... my informations are differents ...
http://www.granada-learning.com/yitm/ww1/f_case_studies.html
(that won't
finally be recognized by the USA), the Italians that had
about 700,000 dead soldiers,
didn't have the territories that was promised to them
in secret agreements made in London in 1915. The Italians were totally
torqued and thought they were deceived,
what were indirectly one of the vectors causing the birth of the
fascism
in 1919.
Italy in WW2 could not even defeat Ethiopia without German help. For the
most part they were a small small faction in WW2.
you're wrong the italians were more active than you seem think (of
course they lost everywhere even against french that were at the very
same time crushed by the germans for a month !... and anyway the
weakness came partly from their obsolete equipments ... thei tanks for
instance were rolling coffins ...
And the Ethiopians had better tanks?
BTW USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a German
agression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.
Who attacked France in 1919? I don't remember anyone.
re-read my sentences and you'll see that i didn't say that there were a
war ... if you don't understand the meaning of my sentence ponder then
read again and ponder it again ... if you still don't get it, ask for
some help.
You state the "USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a
German
aggression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.". How?
Ingrates !
One of the few things I can post about France.
you're meaning that you know nothing about france ? i believe you ...
I know the actions of France since the 1950's have been anything like an
allies.
BTW can you unfold a little why you think the French are ingrates ? ...
it's interesting.
France only looks out for France and no one else. We have found large
amount of materials sold to Iraq in violation of Iraq for one.
I add that The UK made many unconditional concessions to Germany with
the agreement of the French, since France almost abandoned its
diplomatic sovereignty to the UK from 1923 till WWII (why, will you say
? Because we needed them to face Germany. We needed allies).
That is France's mistake not the US's.
Chamberlain said "yes" to the nazis about the rebuilding of the of the
german war fleet in 1935.
Yes he did and by invading Iraq we did not make the same mistakes.
France wanted to respond to the German army's reoccupation of the
Rhineland in 1936, but the UK opposed the idea giving thereby Hitler
the
greenlight for what he had in mind. They said that the
remilitarization,
of the Rhineland wasn't a threat to our vital interests... you
understand what it means in diplomatical language, don't you ? ;-)
Yes it means that France was to scared to fight the German's alone. The
US
It's explained in my post, wiseass ...
big trauma about WWI (will mock us for that though your country have a
trauma for a war were there were 50-55,000 ead US soldiers (vietnam) and
that didn't even devastated your country ... conceited immature chicken
WE FACED DIFFICULTY and HUGE CRISIS ... you didn't ... a little respect,
spoiled brat !
You have no idea of what age I am or my education. the US was anti-war
prior to WW1 because of the carnage of the Civil war. WW1 was no worse to
France than the Civil war was to us.
France : 41.9 millions
germany : 79.5 millions
wanted nothing to do with another war in Europe. France should have
taken
the action it needed to do when Hitler broke the treaty. Instead they
used
it as an excuse to do nothing.
already relied face the facts or forget it !
No plants destroyed in Germany, no
rebuilding in some parts of the
country ... in regions that have some economic importance (mines, steel
industry, etc ...) but The USA and the UK made us go away from the Ruhr
in 29 IIRC and abandon all german money for war reparations ... but we
were always in debts towards the allies (US mainly)
As for war debts I don't recall much repayment.
you don't recall it because you didn't learn it and didn't feel
concerned anyway ...
you found the history calss boring, right ?
No actually one of my favorite.
World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States &
Britain, just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song...
You have to admit that the French people turned in Jews and collaborated
with any wish Hitler had.
well this has been replied ten thousand times here and in other NG by
groups.google.com type the adequate keywords and waggg, yann (IIRC he
replied very long and complete replies about it) gaetan moreau on
soc.culture.french too IIRC)
normally you should find very complete replies to your replies ... if
not post back and i'll give you some hints ... noble far-from-any-danger
hyperpower-inhabitant warrior ...
Oh I forgot : "France the collaborator", eh ? What about the free
french
and De Gaulle, the 2nd DB (Koufrah, Bir Hakeim), General Leclerc, Jean
Moulin, FFI, 1st army of De Lattre, Monte Cassino (general Juin) etc...
The least you could do.
the least ? what would have been the normal level, noble conceited
spoiled lesson-giver, from your unpartial point of view ? (lol)
It was not a little affair... And BTW what you have to know is that the
germans had a "maginot line", the Siegfried line (even longer than
ours)
Yes they built theirs correctly and had better strategy in spite of
Hitler.
ours was correctly built we didn't do it till the sea for political
reasons ...
about the strategy yes ...
maybe an element of reply (i repost a part of a post imade some months
ago about it)
Oh ,BTW where were the USA ?
Obviously not fighting the Nazis ...
If you are not going to stand up for yourselves why should the US be
blamed
oh ... I see your a troll .. i didn't get it ... i wrote tens of lines
to explain the stuff and what you manage to reply is : "If you are not
going to stand up for yourselves" ... i suggest you read one or two
times again for your own edification ...
about the USA ... it's about justice, democracy in the world ... etc ...
but i know that USA a sort of apartheid system untll the 60s so ...
for not doing it for you. We did have a President that got around many
of
the prohibitions by congress and got supplies to Britain.
wow impressive !
The US had official links (embassy and all that)
with the nazis until they were bombed by the Japs and that Hitler and
Mussolini declared war to them ? What they were doing until the dawn of
1942 ? Selling for cash only (cash and carry law)..
. No wonder they had
3/4 the gold reserve of the world after WW2, they surely knew how to
take advantage of Nations fighting against nazism...
Yes we sold supplies to anyone as we were neutral. As for being a power
we
why do you brag about it ? I would be in your shoes iwon't feel good for
that ... that's not great ... noble son of the true justice ... freedom
sewer ...
were one step away from Communism due to the depression. In 1940 the
Drafting of soldier passed by a single vote.
where the soldiers were fighting ? it was one year, 1.5 year before you
were attacked by nips and that the axis declared war to you ...
And by the way, the
US had links with illegitimate government of Vichy far into the war,
and
recognized De Gaulle's government just few days before the Liberation.
Those links let go a lot of places we could not and get information we
needed. A majority of the French gave them legitimacy.
you're talking about who ? the people in France ? I explained you all
the stuff to have the background about Petain ? how could have they know
the future ... explain ...
According to classified documents from Dutch intelligence and US
government archives, President George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott
www.clamormagazine.org
www.ranknfile-ue.org
The 1941 affaire : When Washington was at war with the FREE FRENCH and
www.st-pierre-et-miquelon.com
http://www.hereinreality.com/familyvalues.html
http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm
BTW The French Fleet was under the Vichy's government control .... In
1942 when the german invaded the 'free' territory of France they
directed quickly towards the French Fleet at Toulon (South of France)
The French admiral gave the order to scuttle all the fleet in order
that
the germans don't take it...
According to De Gaulle that lived in England at this time, England had
very few troops on their soil and if the germans had taken the french
fleet, they could have succeeded in invading England.
No way they could have invaded England even with the French Fleet. That
I'm glad to have you opinion, your a PhD in history and geostrategics,
right ?
can we knwo why you are so sure of that ... (I feel the stupidities
coming at fast pace ) lol you are all a bunch of stupid "romantic" XIX
th century-fashioned jingoes ! ...
you'er a heap of set ideas ....
would have brought the US in right away and Hitler did not want us in the
it'sesay to talk after ...
BTW why the UK were more important in the eyes of the USA than France ?
As you can see France (and others) suffered more of the war than USA
...
We protected our country and I for one make no apologies for the Atomic
LOL ... at this date USA were threatened by japan ? in which way bombing
civilians (anyway there were less dead people - yeah, children, women,
eldres - than in Dresden (250,000 or something like that IIRC - a lot
anyway - but what about the radioactivity ... the cancer, leukemia, etc
...)
bombs. One the other hand how would France have been free with our
supplies
and troops?
I don' tunderstand your sentence ... can repeat it in another way,
please ? ...
France was a powerful realm.
A perfect description was. They have shown no gratitude for the Marshall
plan or the US defense during the cold war.
what is the link with what was written just above ? ? ? ?
anyway, we had gratitude for the marshall plan (that the result up to 85
% of gift from the US people not from the US government) - what would
you want have seen ... wasn't it human to help people of a ravaged
continent with millions of deads with no hope though the war pulled you
out of your huge economical crisis and made you the richest and leading
power in the world ...
about the cold war ... what ? what do you mean ... thank you ... yes ...
I must add that to escape the US prevalence De Gaulle left the NATO in
1966, and that we protected ourselves ... (we got enough nukes frome
about 1960 and the first french sattelite was launehed in 66 too IIRC)
You knew we would not let the USSR attack you. So you got out hoping that
if a nuclear war happened you would be spared. You would not have.

I gave you several links as you requested. I am stating a simple fact.
Right now a lot of the population in the US do not like France or George
Bush!
And France attacks Green Peace? and cannot get away with it? Fred
25 yrs ago ... greenpeace had planned to stop our nuclear testing in
pcaific yep ... our agents were nabbed .. yep ... well, and what ... not
proud of it ... but in the intelligence services world ... such an
action it's not that surprising ... AFAIK.
The peace loving French? Fred
waggg
2003-07-16 20:15:59 UTC
Permalink
[Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:31:08 -0400] "FRED WELLMAN"
Post by FRED WELLMAN
huh ... and the USA came for goodness of your heart ? in WWI you came at
the end - BTW the germans were sinking your boat and they tried
"wakwardly" to start a revolt in new mexico
Mexico was not much of a threat. We handled them with very little effort.
the attitude of germany is the relevant thing ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
IIRC ... and Louis Brandeis
hoped you could help to found a jewish land by helping the english in
palestinia IIRC) (i tell it in a nutshell cause i repreat it for 1-2
years ...) so check it before telling me i'm nut. TIA.
First of why does everything ever done have to benefit the Jews. Secondly I
check the facts... if it's true, why should you bring your prejudices in
front of our eyes ?...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
never resorted to name calling and did not call you a nut.
In WWII we were on your road to Berlin (yeah thank god, hitler and the
axis declaed war top you so you finally felt concerned about Europe and
you European relatives...)
Why are our relatives in Europe our responsibility? We came to America to
i said it not very seriously ... but remind in this chaotic dangerous
world that the europeans are your most obvious allies ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
get away from them. Did the French fight for their relatives in Louisiana
some get away from europe to escape religious persecutions, to have a
new life, to try to have their own fram etc ... but don't say that all
us people fled Europe ...

BTW, Some French fought in the civil war (on both sides IIRC)
Post by FRED WELLMAN
during our civil war? NO. The British did fight for the French and British
loyalists in Canada during the war of 1812.
? ? ? the french were british at this moment boyo ... and Laffite helped
you to repell the english in 1815 at New orleans ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
of your heart. If the French were on the road to Berlin before D_Day why
did we have to fight Germans to land on the continent?
we were on YOUR road to Berlin ... understand ?
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Hurting the British was the goal. France sold the US the
and what ? ... Napo sold for nothing to continue his European wars and
keep France in a level of zeveryday life bearable ... war costs a lot
.. mainly when you have to keep an army watching a continent (small but
...)
If France sold the land for next to nothing it is not the fault of the US.
It was not a forced sale.
I know ... i just set the background.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Louisiana purchase. In 1776 the French were a world power today they
still
think they are but they are not.
lol ... you US guys already spiel the same stuff ... why ?
What has France invented since 1940? For good or bad the US figured out how
the atom, moon, etc ... FYI it's greatly from german/austrian jews
imlmigrants and from german/nazi scientists that you got it ... hitory
freak ...

easy to verify ...

BTW can you name the invention of the other countries so much better
than France and so much important ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
to split the atom, and put a man on the moon. Name anything near that.
first of all we had 2 physics nobel prices in the 90's IIRC (amybe
before too but i don't know everything !) and some scientists had some
prizes in sience awards etc ... but let's forget it ...

the nuclear and the space stuff wasn't learnt in comics stips ... so the
level of our scientists wsa/is good ... we had some great stuff .. in
the 80's we had some sort of pre-internet (console mode) stuff (named
minitel, we invented the most fast train in the 80's (TGV) the
anglo-french concord (if not sunk partly by boeing IIRC) could have been
a great stuff, it was ,technologically, very impressive for this time
(60's), [ ow ... talking about Boeing ... is it fine nowdays ? imean
Airbus (still at the beginning a french stuff) is slightly eating your
aeronautic giant ... if Boeing didn't have military US orders .... hm ?]

in the 50's we were good in informatic and we invented the first
microcomputer in the 80's IIRC (OK it was based on the INTEL 8008)
BULL is french though it's not in a good state nowadays ... but in the
past it sold a lot in Europe IIRC ... (all this is from my memory so I
hope i'm not mistaken ... warn me if I'm wrong)

the "anti-pregnancy" pill is from us IIRC ...
we were very good in medicine ...

i can't t remeber everything and I have no time to do intensive
researches... so let me add this to complete :

[ I quote myself from an older post ]
==
Post by FRED WELLMAN
If you folks are that much more enlightened, why didn't YOU invent
the internet your whining on.
We something a little similar in the 80's : le Minitel.

anyway :

USA : 381.5 millions of inhabitants

France : 61.4 millions of inhabitants

= more brains, more richness, more ideas, more individual projects =

(it wasn't that at the birth of the internet but it was the same kind of
proportions)

USA : mega-megabucks

France : far less mega-bucks

BTW
When you have taken advance in matter the progress you make is rather
exponential. while your country was recovering from 1929 and becoming
mega rich and mega powerful, ours were in ruins and exhausted ...
BTW , it doesn't stop the usa and in a minor way the ussr to take nazi
scientists what was very useful for your future (space race VS ussr etc
..) .
No doubts that there are a lot of intelligent and brilliant people in
USA but you should realize that unlike many countries you have a big big
trump ... You're sitting on a big heap of gold what helps you to suck
out a lot of foreign brains out of their countries and having them
working and teaching for your country.
==
Post by FRED WELLMAN
we are not a mega power ... but we are still quite important ... I won't
tell you a lot of exmaples cause i repeat the very same things again and
again ... so do some researches ... only some few facts ...
we are the 4th economic power in th world IIRC ..
And so afraid your culture will not hold up you destroy fast food outlets.
nothing ot do with it ... the anti-globalization / leftists activists
are angered and fighting some international economic system, mega
trusts, uniformisation mechanisms,dna-modified food companies etc ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
If people did not want them and eat there they would not be open
that's not about it.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
. we are one of the 5
nations having a permanent seat at the security council (with veto)
Because of misguided US policy after the war.
UNO needed an odd number ... who would have you put there ? who was more
powerful at this time ? ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
we are with germany the engine of EU (that we started with 6 others
countries in the 50s on our impetus), we are an important military power
(well of course if we compare with USA ... we are ridiculous but who can
compare with the USA nowadays ... the chinese are numerous but what a
technolical gap IIRC - and i admit the french army is not in a good
state anyway) - we are a space power (with other european nations that
along dacades joined us for the Ariane project" - we are a nuclear power
You just stated you could not do it without other countries and have you put
a man in space.
nope. Just realize that we are a smaller country with less natural
resources than yours ... that this kind of things is tremendously
expensive so it's more intelligent to do it with several other countries
and shares the cost and the brains ... moreover that we are becoming a
united political entity .... see what I mean wiseass ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
, we are good in medicine, etc...
of your claims the US was doing a lot before Japan attacked the US.
LOL ... you're either a joker or uninformed ... some credible links ?
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450604a.html
huh ... I failed to find something supporting your allegation on the
webpage you provided ... they talk about march 1941 and the defense of
the USA ... but i've seen nothing else ... could you quote the important
sentences ... if they exist please.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/pages/t044/t04409.html
sorry but i have no time to reading an entire website, i'm busy and have
only the timze to reply to the posts ... so could you, please, point at
least the important page, and if possible the the part I must start to
read ... TIA
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Not to mention an embargo against Japan.
wow ... impressive ! :-)

Japan was invading and chaos-sewing in the asian countries for about 10
yrs IIRC ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
strange question, guy ! why should it have been finished befor you
arrived ? 4 years ... have you seen the stats ? have you seen the number
of US troopers ?
you think you arrived and that the germans were so afraid of the brave
US sioldiers that they fled and decidede to sign an armistice ?
No not our soldier but our supplies. If not for the US entry I doubt
maybe but you have to know that your soldiers were mainly equiped by
france and england.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Britain would have stayed in the war. Even so the Prussian subs were
getting better.
? the germans were in big trouble and I f*cking don't know why England
would scat ? can you unfold a little ?
Post by FRED WELLMAN
? ? ? some explanations coming ? i don't understand at all your sentence
Several cemeteries have be vandalized in France. What more explanation do
you need?
I can see all the tremendous power of the US news :-) (or maybe thbe
problem is just your brain ... or maybe like most of the US guys coming
on the NG to spit on us, too self-centered conceited and spoiled .
Post by FRED WELLMAN
you're wrong the italians were more active than you seem think (of
course they lost everywhere even against french that were at the very
same time crushed by the germans for a month !... and anyway the
weakness came partly from their obsolete equipments ... thei tanks for
instance were rolling coffins ...
And the Ethiopians had better tanks?
they lose anyway :-)

But you're right anytime the italians started a war ... they lost ...
EVEN against France though we were in a total skedaddle and slumping due
to the german attack started ONE MONTH sooner !
Post by FRED WELLMAN
BTW USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a German
agression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.
Who attacked France in 1919? I don't remember anyone.
re-read my sentences and you'll see that i didn't say that there were a
war ... if you don't understand the meaning of my sentence ponder then
read again and ponder it again ... if you still don't get it, ask for
some help.
You state the "USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a
German
aggression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.". How?
they said (in total reversal of their promises - yeah France felt
insecure about the future with germany) that they abandonned their
pledge of alliance ... (sorry if my english sounds like gibberish, but
after all i'm french-speaking ... english is a foreign language that i
use only sometimes on internet.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Ingrates !
One of the few things I can post about France.
you're meaning that you know nothing about france ? i believe you ...
I know the actions of France since the 1950's have been anything like an
allies.
BTW can you unfold a little why you think the French are ingrates ? ...
it's interesting.
France only looks out for France and no one else. We have found large
LOL ... and USA only looks for ?...

anyway the "philanthropic" countries are pretty rare, don't you think so
? BTW what is your age ?
Post by FRED WELLMAN
amount of materials sold to Iraq in violation of Iraq for one.
oh better and better ... can you quote them and provide the link poor
disinformed toy of your very unneutral medias ? ...
please ... feel free to post a lot of them ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
I add that The UK made many unconditional concessions to Germany with
the agreement of the French, since France almost abandoned its
diplomatic sovereignty to the UK from 1923 till WWII (why, will you say
? Because we needed them to face Germany. We needed allies).
That is France's mistake not the US's.
I don't see the link with the USA but anyway we were kinda with manacles
... see what i mean ... no ? try harder to understand the french
position with all the elements i gave you ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Chamberlain said "yes" to the nazis about the rebuilding of the of the
german war fleet in 1935.
Yes he did and by invading Iraq we did not make the same mistakes.
what are you talking about ? not about Iraq I hope ... if so it seems
the didnformation worked pretty well since even when the mask is going
away, you're still rely on the doubtful allegations of you
administration ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
It's explained in my post, wiseass ...
big trauma about WWI (will mock us for that though your country have a
trauma for a war were there were 50-55,000 ead US soldiers (vietnam) and
that didn't even devastated your country ... conceited immature chicken
WE FACED DIFFICULTY and HUGE CRISIS ... you didn't ... a little respect,
spoiled brat !
You have no idea of what age I am or my education. the US was anti-war
i'm not talking about you ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
prior to WW1 because of the carnage of the Civil war. WW1 was no worse to
50 yrs before, not even of the neumber of immigrants that weren't there
in 1861-5 (i mean their ancestors !)
yeah I can easily imagine that it was a trauma ... but it was between
USA Do you know what it does to have foreigners devastating your
country, decimating the youth of your country on your own soil ...

not knowing your country will surive ... and in what state ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
France than the Civil war was to us.
huh ... well the WWI was a salughter of a new kind that never humanity
witnessed in the past ... in form you better ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
you found the history calss boring, right ?
No actually one of my favorite.
so we have only 2 solutions ... you understood what you wanted to
understand or your teachers weren't so good ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Oh I forgot : "France the collaborator", eh ? What about the free
french
and De Gaulle, the 2nd DB (Koufrah, Bir Hakeim), General Leclerc, Jean
Moulin, FFI, 1st army of De Lattre, Monte Cassino (general Juin) etc...
The least you could do.
the least ? what would have been the normal level, noble conceited
spoiled lesson-giver, from your unpartial point of view ? (lol)
Im' glad to see that you realized what i meant.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
ours was correctly built we didn't do it till the sea for political
reasons ...
about the strategy yes ...
maybe an element of reply (i repost a part of a post imade some months
ago about it)
oops ! here the copy & paste :

=
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Again no amount of excuses changes the facts. If the germans thought you
could
cross the Ardennes why didn't the french?????? True HUGE mistakes were made
that doesn't mean you quit the fight.
It seemed impossible to them ... It was the "old school" BTW ... A lot
of youngsters were killed in WWI so it changed the face of the french
society, in the army too ... indirectly, maybe ... some people say that
...
Anyway ... they thought it was impossible ... too bad ...
=
Post by FRED WELLMAN
about the cold war ... what ? what do you mean ... thank you ... yes ...
I must add that to escape the US prevalence De Gaulle left the NATO in
1966, and that we protected ourselves ... (we got enough nukes frome
about 1960 and the first french sattelite was launehed in 66 too IIRC)
You knew we would not let the USSR attack you. So you got out hoping that
if a nuclear war happened you would be spared. You would not have.
LOL ... I don't understand ... nuclear weapons are weapons of dissuasion
... deterrent ... if a state had erased our main cities of the maps we
would have erased millions of their people, their capital etc ... that's
all ... it's sufficient to be protected ...

When I think that UK must ask to her uncle Sam if they can use their
nukes ... lol :-)
Post by FRED WELLMAN
I gave you several links as you requested. I am stating a simple fact.
Right now a lot of the population in the US do not like France or George
Bush!
about US people disliking French people AFAICS nothing new ... you had a
lot of prejudices for a long time ...

Any way that the level of hate has hugely increased i know it ... and
what ? the contrary would be surprising with antifrench campaign in your
medias and the attitude of your administarion because we dared not
thinking like them ... that's a bright face you're showing to the
worldguys !

we are the 07/16/2003 and YOU think and believe that France had shady
deals about armaments or whatevr with Iraq though this is wrong ...

how could USA like us if they blindly believed the huge antifrench
campaign in their media ....

US people are highly disnformed ! a lot think that Iraq was linked to
the 9/11 !!! a lot think that they had link with al-qaeda !!!
and what about the WMDs ... I will assume you read the news ...

I have good (US) article and polls about it if you wish ... that's sad !
Post by FRED WELLMAN
And France attacks Green Peace? and cannot get away with it? Fred
25 yrs ago ... greenpeace had planned to stop our nuclear testing in
pcaific yep ... our agents were nabbed .. yep ... well, and what ... not
proud of it ... but in the intelligence services world ... such an
action it's not that surprising ... AFAIK.
The peace loving French? Fred
we are not warmongers ... but we are not blind hippie-like pacifists ...
indeed ... never siad the contrary ...
France has an ego, needs and will .
waggg
2003-07-18 21:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by waggg
? ? ? the french were british at this moment boyo ... and Laffite helped
you to repell the english in 1815 at New orleans ...
The french in Canada of course ...
Post by waggg
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Several cemeteries have be vandalized in France. What more explanation do
you need?
I can see all the tremendous power of the US news :-) (or maybe thbe
problem is just your brain ... or maybe like most of the US guys coming
on the NG to spit on us, too self-centered conceited and spoiled .
OOPS ... I forgot the important thing ! I was tired ...

It was a brittish soldiers cemetary ... no US cemetary was vandalized
AFAIK ... And I'm not able to understand why the doings of some (few ! -
and why not even 1! ) weak-minded lobotomized assholes should stain the
image of a whole country ... Chirac made excuses and the french said
they were shocked by such an act, of course !
Post by waggg
I have good (US) article and polls about it if you wish ... that's sad !
for instance (but i have others !) :

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/6214730.htm

Iraq threat hyped, most say
BY FRANK DAVIES
***@herald.com

WASHINGTON - A majority of Americans believe the Bush administration
exaggerated the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to justify
the war, according to a poll on the conflict and its aftermath released
Tuesday.

But one-third disagree, saying government officials were ''being fully
truthful'' about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and one in 10 said
the administration lied about the evidence, according to the survey by
the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of
Maryland.

The nationwide poll of 1,051 adults, conducted by Knowledge Networks
from June 18 to 25, showed that 52 percent agreed that the
administration was ''stretching the truth, but not making false
statements'' about the weapons threat.

So far, the search for such weapons has come up empty. On Capitol Hill,
House and Senate intelligence committees are conducting closed-door
investigations into U.S. intelligence about Iraq's weapons capacity and
whether it was misused.

Some Democrats have called unsuccessfully for public hearings.

The poll found a public conflicted about the rationale for war, more
pessimistic about reconstruction efforts but still supportive of the
decision to invade Iraq and patient about a long-term U.S. role there.

A large majority, 71 percent of those polled, also agreed that Bush
officials ''implied that Iraq under Saddam Hussein was involved in the
Sept. 11, 2001, attacks'' on New York and Washington.

And 25 percent said incorrectly they thought Iraq was ''directly
involved in carrying out'' those attacks.

According to the survey, 65 percent support the decision to invade Iraq,
down just 3 percentage points from May.

In the most recent poll, 40 percent described postwar efforts as going
''not very well'' and 13 percent chose the phrase ''not at all well.''
In May, a majority was more positive about reconstruction efforts.

''The poll shows the public is in some turmoil about Iraq, and uneasy
about some of the administration claims,'' said Steven Kull, director of
the program. ``But for most people, the pluses of going to war still
outweigh the minuses.''

Similar unease about the current situation in Iraq, where more than 60
U.S. troops have died since May 1, was reflected in a Gallup-USA Today
poll released Tuesday.

According to that survey, 56 percent said the situation in Iraq was
''worth going to war over,'' while 42 percent disagree. In mid-April,
after the fall of Baghdad, the margin was 73-23 percent.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said that the Gallup Poll showed
high levels of support for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq, and noted that
61 percent said the administration did not deliberately mislead the
public.

''I think the American people actually have a very good center of
gravity about the situation in Iraq,'' Fleischer said.

Kull's polling over several months shows patience over the need for a
continuing U.S. presence in Iraq.

Four of five Americans said that the United States has ``the
responsibility to remain in Iraq as long as necessary until there is a
stable government.''

At the same time, there is growing support for the U.N. and other
international groups to play a larger role in postwar Iraq. Two-thirds
said the U.N. should direct relief work, economic reconstruction and
efforts to build a democratic government.

The poll comes at a time when more members of Congress from both parties
are urging the administration to ''internationalize'' the rebuilding
effort by enlisting more nations and the U.N.

Complete results of the survey are available at:

www.pipa.org (interesting to check it out !)
axyz
2003-07-19 06:04:14 UTC
Permalink
What kind of a loser posts a followup to his own post????
Post by waggg
Post by waggg
? ? ? the french were british at this moment boyo ... and Laffite helped
you to repell the english in 1815 at New orleans ...
The french in Canada of course ...
Post by waggg
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Several cemeteries have be vandalized in France. What more explanation do
you need?
I can see all the tremendous power of the US news :-) (or maybe thbe
problem is just your brain ... or maybe like most of the US guys coming
on the NG to spit on us, too self-centered conceited and spoiled .
OOPS ... I forgot the important thing ! I was tired ...
It was a brittish soldiers cemetary ... no US cemetary was vandalized
AFAIK ... And I'm not able to understand why the doings of some (few ! -
and why not even 1! ) weak-minded lobotomized assholes should stain the
image of a whole country ... Chirac made excuses and the french said
they were shocked by such an act, of course !
Post by waggg
I have good (US) article and polls about it if you wish ... that's sad !
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/6214730.htm
Iraq threat hyped, most say
So? We are dealing with people who are willing to crash airplanes into
buildings or any other method possible in attempts to kill as many as
possible. Their motto is "there are no rules", and "we will continue to fight
America until either we or America is gone." And so if Bush stretched
a few truths to get rid of the biggest loon and source of instability in the
middle east, just look at it as Bush's way of playing a game in which "there
are no rules!"; there is actually just one rule: "WIN!"

And remember, SH had ten years to hide his toys. He is a master of
deception. You can never prove WMD's don't exist, only that they do.

I say great job Bush! Well done! [applause!] Bush in 2004!
Rumsfelt in 2008 and 2012!
Post by waggg
BY FRANK DAVIES
WASHINGTON - A majority of Americans believe the Bush administration
exaggerated the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to justify
the war, according to a poll on the conflict and its aftermath released
Tuesday.
But one-third disagree, saying government officials were ''being fully
truthful'' about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and one in 10 said
the administration lied about the evidence, according to the survey by
the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of
Maryland.
The nationwide poll of 1,051 adults, conducted by Knowledge Networks
from June 18 to 25, showed that 52 percent agreed that the
administration was ''stretching the truth, but not making false
statements'' about the weapons threat.
So far, the search for such weapons has come up empty. On Capitol Hill,
House and Senate intelligence committees are conducting closed-door
investigations into U.S. intelligence about Iraq's weapons capacity and
whether it was misused.
Some Democrats have called unsuccessfully for public hearings.
The poll found a public conflicted about the rationale for war, more
pessimistic about reconstruction efforts but still supportive of the
decision to invade Iraq and patient about a long-term U.S. role there.
A large majority, 71 percent of those polled, also agreed that Bush
officials ''implied that Iraq under Saddam Hussein was involved in the
Sept. 11, 2001, attacks'' on New York and Washington.
And 25 percent said incorrectly they thought Iraq was ''directly
involved in carrying out'' those attacks.
According to the survey, 65 percent support the decision to invade Iraq,
down just 3 percentage points from May.
In the most recent poll, 40 percent described postwar efforts as going
''not very well'' and 13 percent chose the phrase ''not at all well.''
In May, a majority was more positive about reconstruction efforts.
''The poll shows the public is in some turmoil about Iraq, and uneasy
about some of the administration claims,'' said Steven Kull, director of
the program. ``But for most people, the pluses of going to war still
outweigh the minuses.''
Similar unease about the current situation in Iraq, where more than 60
U.S. troops have died since May 1, was reflected in a Gallup-USA Today
poll released Tuesday.
According to that survey, 56 percent said the situation in Iraq was
''worth going to war over,'' while 42 percent disagree. In mid-April,
after the fall of Baghdad, the margin was 73-23 percent.
White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said that the Gallup Poll showed
high levels of support for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq, and noted that
61 percent said the administration did not deliberately mislead the
public.
''I think the American people actually have a very good center of
gravity about the situation in Iraq,'' Fleischer said.
Kull's polling over several months shows patience over the need for a
continuing U.S. presence in Iraq.
Four of five Americans said that the United States has ``the
responsibility to remain in Iraq as long as necessary until there is a
stable government.''
At the same time, there is growing support for the U.N. and other
international groups to play a larger role in postwar Iraq. Two-thirds
said the U.N. should direct relief work, economic reconstruction and
efforts to build a democratic government.
The poll comes at a time when more members of Congress from both parties
are urging the administration to ''internationalize'' the rebuilding
effort by enlisting more nations and the U.N.
www.pipa.org (interesting to check it out !)
axyz
2003-07-19 05:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by waggg
[Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:31:08 -0400] "FRED WELLMAN"
Post by FRED WELLMAN
huh ... and the USA came for goodness of your heart ? in WWI you came at
the end - BTW the germans were sinking your boat and they tried
"wakwardly" to start a revolt in new mexico
Mexico was not much of a threat. We handled them with very little effort.
the attitude of germany is the relevant thing ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
IIRC ... and Louis Brandeis
hoped you could help to found a jewish land by helping the english in
palestinia IIRC) (i tell it in a nutshell cause i repreat it for 1-2
years ...) so check it before telling me i'm nut. TIA.
First of why does everything ever done have to benefit the Jews. Secondly I
check the facts... if it's true, why should you bring your prejudices in
front of our eyes ?...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
never resorted to name calling and did not call you a nut.
No response on this one, huh waggg? i'm not suprised.
Post by waggg
Post by FRED WELLMAN
In WWII we were on your road to Berlin (yeah thank god, hitler and the
axis declaed war top you so you finally felt concerned about Europe and
you European relatives...)
Why are our relatives in Europe our responsibility? We came to America to
i said it not very seriously ... but remind in this chaotic dangerous
world that the europeans are your most obvious allies ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
get away from them. Did the French fight for their relatives in Louisiana
some get away from europe to escape religious persecutions, to have a
new life, to try to have their own fram etc ... but don't say that all
us people fled Europe ...
BTW, Some French fought in the civil war (on both sides IIRC)
Post by FRED WELLMAN
during our civil war? NO. The British did fight for the French and British
loyalists in Canada during the war of 1812.
? ? ? the french were british at this moment boyo ... and Laffite helped
you to repell the english in 1815 at New orleans ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
of your heart. If the French were on the road to Berlin before D_Day why
did we have to fight Germans to land on the continent?
we were on YOUR road to Berlin ... understand ?
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Hurting the British was the goal. France sold the US the
and what ? ... Napo sold for nothing to continue his European wars and
keep France in a level of zeveryday life bearable ... war costs a lot
.. mainly when you have to keep an army watching a continent (small but
...)
If France sold the land for next to nothing it is not the fault of the US.
It was not a forced sale.
I know ... i just set the background.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Louisiana purchase. In 1776 the French were a world power today they
still
think they are but they are not.
lol ... you US guys already spiel the same stuff ... why ?
What has France invented since 1940? For good or bad the US figured out how
the atom, moon, etc ... FYI it's greatly from german/austrian jews
imlmigrants and from german/nazi scientists that you got it ... hitory
freak ...
Name calling and an attempt to change the subject, a waggg admission of defeat...
What has france invented since 1940? Try answering the question, waggg! (In fact
the only thing I recall france inventing BEFORE 1940 is the guillotine.)
Post by waggg
easy to verify ...
BTW can you name the invention of the other countries so much better
than France and so much important ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
to split the atom, and put a man on the moon. Name anything near that.
first of all we had 2 physics nobel prices in the 90's IIRC (amybe
before too but i don't know everything !) and some scientists had some
prizes in sience awards etc ... but let's forget it ...
the nuclear and the space stuff wasn't learnt in comics stips ... so the
level of our scientists wsa/is good ... we had some great stuff .. in
the 80's we had some sort of pre-internet (console mode) stuff (named
minitel, we invented the most fast train in the 80's (TGV) the
anglo-french concord (if not sunk partly by boeing IIRC) could have been
a great stuff, it was ,technologically, very impressive for this time
(60's), [ ow ... talking about Boeing ... is it fine nowdays ? imean
Airbus (still at the beginning a french stuff) is slightly eating your
aeronautic giant ... if Boeing didn't have military US orders .... hm ?]
in the 50's we were good in informatic and we invented the first
microcomputer in the 80's IIRC (OK it was based on the INTEL 8008)
BULL is french though it's not in a good state nowadays ... but in the
past it sold a lot in Europe IIRC ... (all this is from my memory so I
hope i'm not mistaken ... warn me if I'm wrong)
the "anti-pregnancy" pill is from us IIRC ...
we were very good in medicine ...
i can't t remeber everything and I have no time to do intensive
[ I quote myself from an older post ]
==
Post by FRED WELLMAN
If you folks are that much more enlightened, why didn't YOU invent
the internet your whining on.
We something a little similar in the 80's : le Minitel.
USA : 381.5 millions of inhabitants
France : 61.4 millions of inhabitants
= more brains, more richness, more ideas, more individual projects =
So based on your warped and twisted logic the US should be behind
Russia, China and India, yet that is not the case.
Post by waggg
(it wasn't that at the birth of the internet but it was the same kind of
proportions)
USA : mega-megabucks
France : far less mega-bucks
BTW
When you have taken advance in matter the progress you make is rather
exponential. while your country was recovering from 1929 and becoming
mega rich and mega powerful, ours were in ruins and exhausted ...
Because france allowed the Germans to advance to within 20 miles of Paris in
the span of six weeks.
Post by waggg
BTW , it doesn't stop the usa and in a minor way the ussr to take nazi
scientists what was very useful for your future (space race VS ussr etc
..) .
The spoils of war. France would know about it if france ever won a war on her
own. But france only seems to win when the US is there, so we always get the
spoils. The biggest dog always eats first, beacuse it is the biggest.
Post by waggg
No doubts that there are a lot of intelligent and brilliant people in
USA but you should realize that unlike many countries you have a big big
trump ... You're sitting on a big heap of gold what helps you to suck
out a lot of foreign brains out of their countries and having them
working and teaching for your country.
Take the best; then not only do you have them, but you deny them to the
other party, effectively gaining an advantage of two. Also known as long
term strategic planning. As opposed to almost bankrupting an entire
country to build half of a wall that the germans never even saw on their
six week march to Paris.
Post by waggg
==
Post by FRED WELLMAN
we are not a mega power ... but we are still quite important ... I won't
tell you a lot of exmaples cause i repeat the very same things again and
again ... so do some researches ... only some few facts ...
we are the 4th economic power in th world IIRC ..
And so afraid your culture will not hold up you destroy fast food outlets.
nothing ot do with it ... the anti-globalization / leftists activists
are angered and fighting some international economic system, mega
trusts, uniformisation mechanisms,dna-modified food companies etc ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
If people did not want them and eat there they would not be open
that's not about it.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
. we are one of the 5
nations having a permanent seat at the security council (with veto)
Because of misguided US policy after the war.
UNO needed an odd number ... who would have you put there ? who was more
powerful at this time ? ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
we are with germany the engine of EU (that we started with 6 others
countries in the 50s on our impetus), we are an important military power
(well of course if we compare with USA ... we are ridiculous but who can
compare with the USA nowadays ... the chinese are numerous but what a
technolical gap IIRC - and i admit the french army is not in a good
state anyway) - we are a space power (with other european nations that
along dacades joined us for the Ariane project" - we are a nuclear power
You just stated you could not do it without other countries and have you put
a man in space.
nope. Just realize that we are a smaller country with less natural
resources than yours ...
Because of an idiot named Napoleon. Your resources were sold in 1803 in order
to provide fertilzer for Russian fields. Not only do the french make terrible soldiers,
but apparently they make even worse businessmen. So france's own incompetence
is the reason france has so few resources. Stop acting like it is an unfair
circumstance.







that this kind of things is tremendously
Post by waggg
expensive so it's more intelligent to do it with several other countries
and shares the cost and the brains ... moreover that we are becoming a
united political entity .... see what I mean wiseass ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
, we are good in medicine, etc...
of your claims the US was doing a lot before Japan attacked the US.
LOL ... you're either a joker or uninformed ... some credible links ?
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450604a.html
huh ... I failed to find something supporting your allegation on the
webpage you provided ... they talk about march 1941 and the defense of
the USA ... but i've seen nothing else ... could you quote the important
sentences ... if they exist please.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/pages/t044/t04409.html
sorry but i have no time to reading an entire website, i'm busy and have
only the timze to reply to the posts ... so could you, please, point at
least the important page, and if possible the the part I must start to
read ... TIA
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Not to mention an embargo against Japan.
wow ... impressive ! :-)
Japan was invading and chaos-sewing in the asian countries for about 10
yrs IIRC ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
strange question, guy ! why should it have been finished befor you
arrived ? 4 years ... have you seen the stats ? have you seen the number
of US troopers ?
you think you arrived and that the germans were so afraid of the brave
US sioldiers that they fled and decidede to sign an armistice ?
No not our soldier but our supplies. If not for the US entry I doubt
maybe but you have to know that your soldiers were mainly equiped by
france and england.
Please elaborate on this lie. When did france or England invent, manufacture
and distribute to US forces: (and be sure to respond to each weapon listed
below!)

the M1918A2 .30 caliber BAR
the colt .45
the thompson .45 machine gun
the M1 0.30 rifle
the M3 sub machine gun (grease gun)
the M1 portable flame thrower
the M1903 Springfield bolt action rifle
the M1 81mm mortar
the M1A1 60mm rocket launcher (Bazooka)
the M2 60mm mortar
the MK2 hand grenade

Face it wagggy, you have been caught in telling yet another lie in your pathetic
attempts to glorify france.
Post by waggg
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Britain would have stayed in the war. Even so the Prussian subs were
getting better.
? the germans were in big trouble and I f*cking don't know why England
would scat ? can you unfold a little ?
Post by FRED WELLMAN
? ? ? some explanations coming ? i don't understand at all your sentence
Several cemeteries have be vandalized in France. What more explanation do
you need?
I can see all the tremendous power of the US news :-) (or maybe thbe
problem is just your brain ... or maybe like most of the US guys coming
on the NG to spit on us, too self-centered conceited and spoiled .
Post by FRED WELLMAN
you're wrong the italians were more active than you seem think (of
course they lost everywhere even against french that were at the very
same time crushed by the germans for a month !... and anyway the
weakness came partly from their obsolete equipments ... thei tanks for
instance were rolling coffins ...
And the Ethiopians had better tanks?
they lose anyway :-)
But you're right anytime the italians started a war ... they lost ...
EVEN against France though we were in a total skedaddle and slumping due
to the german attack started ONE MONTH sooner !
Post by FRED WELLMAN
BTW USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a German
agression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.
Who attacked France in 1919? I don't remember anyone.
re-read my sentences and you'll see that i didn't say that there were a
war ... if you don't understand the meaning of my sentence ponder then
read again and ponder it again ... if you still don't get it, ask for
some help.
You state the "USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a
German
aggression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.". How?
they said (in total reversal of their promises - yeah France felt
insecure about the future with germany) that they abandonned their
pledge of alliance ... (sorry if my english sounds like gibberish, but
after all i'm french-speaking ... english is a foreign language that i
use only sometimes on internet.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Ingrates !
One of the few things I can post about France.
you're meaning that you know nothing about france ? i believe you ...
I know the actions of France since the 1950's have been anything like an
allies.
BTW can you unfold a little why you think the French are ingrates ? ...
it's interesting.
France only looks out for France and no one else. We have found large
LOL ... and USA only looks for ?...
anyway the "philanthropic" countries are pretty rare, don't you think so
? BTW what is your age ?
Post by FRED WELLMAN
amount of materials sold to Iraq in violation of Iraq for one.
oh better and better ... can you quote them and provide the link poor
disinformed toy of your very unneutral medias ? ...
please ... feel free to post a lot of them ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
I add that The UK made many unconditional concessions to Germany with
the agreement of the French, since France almost abandoned its
diplomatic sovereignty to the UK from 1923 till WWII (why, will you say
? Because we needed them to face Germany. We needed allies).
That is France's mistake not the US's.
I don't see the link with the USA but anyway we were kinda with manacles
... see what i mean ... no ? try harder to understand the french
position with all the elements i gave you ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Chamberlain said "yes" to the nazis about the rebuilding of the of the
german war fleet in 1935.
Yes he did and by invading Iraq we did not make the same mistakes.
what are you talking about ? not about Iraq I hope ... if so it seems
the didnformation worked pretty well since even when the mask is going
away, you're still rely on the doubtful allegations of you
administration ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
It's explained in my post, wiseass ...
big trauma about WWI (will mock us for that though your country have a
trauma for a war were there were 50-55,000 ead US soldiers (vietnam) and
that didn't even devastated your country ... conceited immature chicken
WE FACED DIFFICULTY and HUGE CRISIS ... you didn't ... a little respect,
spoiled brat !
You have no idea of what age I am or my education. the US was anti-war
i'm not talking about you ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
prior to WW1 because of the carnage of the Civil war. WW1 was no worse to
50 yrs before, not even of the neumber of immigrants that weren't there
in 1861-5 (i mean their ancestors !)
yeah I can easily imagine that it was a trauma ... but it was between
USA Do you know what it does to have foreigners devastating your
country, decimating the youth of your country on your own soil ...
No, we prefer have competent military leaders who actually take steps to
prevent it from happening. As opposed to miltary planners who decide to
build HALF of a wall in an attempt to keep the enemy out.
Post by waggg
not knowing your country will surive ... and in what state ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
France than the Civil war was to us.
huh ... well the WWI was a salughter of a new kind that never humanity
witnessed in the past ... in form you better ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
you found the history calss boring, right ?
No actually one of my favorite.
so we have only 2 solutions ... you understood what you wanted to
understand or your teachers weren't so good ...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Oh I forgot : "France the collaborator", eh ? What about the free
french
and De Gaulle, the 2nd DB (Koufrah, Bir Hakeim), General Leclerc, Jean
Moulin, FFI, 1st army of De Lattre, Monte Cassino (general Juin) etc...
The least you could do.
the least ? what would have been the normal level, noble conceited
spoiled lesson-giver, from your unpartial point of view ? (lol)
Im' glad to see that you realized what i meant.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
ours was correctly built we didn't do it till the sea for political
reasons ...
about the strategy yes ...
maybe an element of reply (i repost a part of a post imade some months
ago about it)
=
Post by FRED WELLMAN
Again no amount of excuses changes the facts. If the germans thought you
could
cross the Ardennes why didn't the french?????? True HUGE mistakes were made
that doesn't mean you quit the fight.
It seemed impossible to them ... It was the "old school" BTW ... A lot
of youngsters were killed in WWI so it changed the face of the french
society, in the army too ... indirectly, maybe ... some people say that
...
Anyway ... they thought it was impossible ... too bad ...
=
Post by FRED WELLMAN
about the cold war ... what ? what do you mean ... thank you ... yes ...
I must add that to escape the US prevalence De Gaulle left the NATO in
1966, and that we protected ourselves ... (we got enough nukes frome
about 1960 and the first french sattelite was launehed in 66 too IIRC)
You knew we would not let the USSR attack you. So you got out hoping that
if a nuclear war happened you would be spared. You would not have.
LOL ... I don't understand ... nuclear weapons are weapons of dissuasion
... deterrent ... if a state had erased our main cities of the maps we
would have erased millions of their people, their capital etc ... that's
all ... it's sufficient to be protected ...
When I think that UK must ask to her uncle Sam if they can use their
nukes ... lol :-)
Post by FRED WELLMAN
I gave you several links as you requested. I am stating a simple fact.
Right now a lot of the population in the US do not like France or George
Bush!
about US people disliking French people AFAICS nothing new ... you had a
lot of prejudices for a long time ...
Any way that the level of hate has hugely increased i know it ... and
what ? the contrary would be surprising with antifrench campaign in your
medias and the attitude of your administarion because we dared not
thinking like them ... that's a bright face you're showing to the
worldguys !
we are the 07/16/2003 and YOU think and believe that France had shady
deals about armaments or whatevr with Iraq though this is wrong ...
how could USA like us if they blindly believed the huge antifrench
campaign in their media ....
french opinion is irrelevant. America proved that when we laughed at your
veto and did what we wanted anyway.
Post by waggg
US people are highly disnformed ! a lot think that Iraq was linked to
the 9/11 !!! a lot think that they had link with al-qaeda !!!
and what about the WMDs ... I will assume you read the news ...
I have good (US) article and polls about it if you wish ... that's sad !
Post by FRED WELLMAN
And France attacks Green Peace? and cannot get away with it? Fred
25 yrs ago ... greenpeace had planned to stop our nuclear testing in
pcaific yep ... our agents were nabbed .. yep ... well, and what ... not
proud of it ... but in the intelligence services world ... such an
action it's not that surprising ... AFAIK.
The peace loving French? Fred
we are not warmongers ...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! One of the
biggest lies you have told on this NG!!! France has not gone 50 consecutive
years with being in a military conflict since 1337AD.

Just a partial list of nations the country of france (who is not a warmonger) has
attacked or started wars with in last 150 years:

Germany (Franco Prussian war)
Madagascar
Sudan
Gabon
Dahomey
Upper Volta
French West Africa
Niger
Chad
Tunisia
French Guinea
Mauritania
Ivory Coast
Algeria
French IndoChina

but we are not blind hippie-like pacifists ...
Post by waggg
indeed ... never siad the contrary ...
France has an ego, needs and will .
And still is in desperate need of soap and deodorant.
And dignity. And an army that can defend france.
And attractive women who need razors. And something
better to eat than snails. But other than these few items,
I'm sure france has everything it needs. Except for your
guardian angel, the USA.
axyz
2003-07-19 04:23:28 UTC
Permalink
[Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:15:12 -0400] "FRED WELLMAN"
we are the 4th economic power in th world IIRC ... we are one of the 5
4th economic power... HAHAHAHA!!!! french unemployment at 10%
and rising, the worst economic growth in six years, and french citizens
protesting the fact that your pitiful economy is even less than that of just
California by blocking traffic as if grinding all traffic to a halt is actually
going to help! Plus coward wine sales are down by over 20% in the US and
the french Tourism Ministry has stated that US tourist bookings are down by
over 25%. I'm glad you see this as something to brag about, because
American's find it absolutely hilarious! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
nations having a permanent seat at the security council (with veto)
HAHAHAHA!!!! And that veto you are bragging about sure carries a lot
of pull with the USA and England and Australia and Poland and Spain and
Italy and list of other countries!
we are with germany the engine of EU (that we started with 6 others
countries in the 50s on our impetus), we are an important military power
(well of course if we compare with USA ... we are ridiculous but who can
compare with the USA nowadays ... the chinese are numerous but what a
technolical gap IIRC - and i admit the french army is not in a good
state anyway) - we are a space power (with other european nations that
along dacades joined us for the Ariane project" - we are a nuclear power
, we are good in medicine, etc...
france a space power... let's clarify:
how many french citizens has france the space power sent to walk on the moon???
We fought generally alone VS the whole Europe and we won, we possessed
almost the whole Europe during 15 yrs, Moscow burnt - who did this
things other than us ?
You seem to neglect to mention that france had the largest army ever fielded to
the time - over 500,000 french soldiers went to Russia with Napoleon, yet
only 25,000 ever returned, the rest becoming fertilizer in Russian fields. What
a "glorious" victory.

Wagg, you do seem to have a way of "forgetting" to tell the whole truth when
making your misguided claims of french superiority...

And how interesting... a "peaceful" frenchman (and I use the suffix "-man" as a
courtesy only) bragging about military exploits (even though france LOST!)
Germany for one.
yep they did it ... other ones ? (and anyway moscow didn't burn !)
Poland held cut longer than France did in WW 2. despite
wrong.
of your claims the US was doing a lot before Japan attacked the US.
LOL ... you're either a joker or uninformed ... some credible links ?
Ever heard of the Lend Lease Act? It is so hypocritical for the french to
complain that the US went to war too fast in Iraq, yet took too long to
come bail out france during WW2.

Besides, why didn't france get involved in 1939 when Poland was
attacked???
1914-1918 : The French army was the major military actor on the Western
front for 4 years. The British took a very active part on that front for
4 years too. The allies under Marechal Foch's French command eventually
won the war. The American troops massively arrived on the front only 4
months (July 1918) before the end of the war (November 1918).
Western front March 1918 : 174 allies divisions : 99 French + 58 British
+ 12 Belgian + 3 US + 2 portuguese.
Western Front November 1918 : 211 Allies divisions : 104 French + 60
British + 30 US + 12 Belgian + 2 portuguese + 2 Italian + 1 Polish.
If the help of the US was not needed why didn't the war end before we
strange question, guy ! why should it have been finished befor you
arrived ? 4 years ... have you seen the stats ? have you seen the number
of US troopers ?
you think you arrived and that the germans were so afraid of the brave
US sioldiers that they fled and decidede to sign an armistice ?
inform you... i think it's the better thing you could do ...
Franco-Prussian War - France declares war on Germany. Six weeks later
Germans are sitting in Paris.

WW1 - Germans take six weeks to advance to within 20 miles of Paris. It takes
four years to take back this territory.

WW2 - Germans take six weeks to take Paris, with the support of the greatest
act of cowardice ever displayed by an army - over 1,000,000 men in the french
army and 2/3rds of france still under french control...

And the above french history is what waggg is actually bragging about??? What
a pathetic disgrace. It almost makes you feel sorry for him, but then you realize that
he is just another backstabbing arrogant unshowered coward and pity gives way to
hatred and you just wish he would shrivel up and die a slow painful death, much like
the nation of France is already doing thanks to leaders wearing blinders like
Le Worm Jacques Chirac!
entered? Without US intervention France would have lost or be in a constant
cold war.
I don't think so ... do you know the meaning of Blockade ? do you know
whjat was the economic state of our adversaries in 1918 ?
After the war, the French were universally saluted as the country that
saved democracy and the victor amongst all the Allies (and especially in
the US) and their international prestige was very high, just like that
of the US in 1945. It just seems like history is no longer taught in the
US now.
Stop spitting on the graves of the 1,500,000 dead French soldiers TIA.
Stop allowing the desecration of American Graves.
? ? ? some explanations coming ? i don't understand at all your sentence
...
The USA that entered the war et the end of the war refused to hear about
The result : Because of the Versailles's treaty as wanted by the USA
That is pure fiction the US told the British and the French that another war
would come from the treaty. the US wanted a peace like WW2.
some neutral links ... my informations are differents ...
(that won't
finally be recognized by the USA), the Italians that had
about 700,000 dead soldiers,
didn't have the territories that was promised to them
in secret agreements made in London in 1915. The Italians were totally
torqued and thought they were deceived,
what were indirectly one of the vectors causing the birth of the fascism
in 1919.
Italy in WW2 could not even defeat Ethiopia without German help. For the
most part they were a small small faction in WW2.
you're wrong the italians were more active than you seem think (of
course they lost everywhere even against french that were at the very
same time crushed by the germans for a month !... and anyway the
weakness came partly from their obsolete equipments ... thei tanks for
instance were rolling coffins ...
BTW USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a German
agression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.
Who attacked France in 1919? I don't remember anyone.
re-read my sentences and you'll see that i didn't say that there were a
war ... if you don't understand the meaning of my sentence ponder then
read again and ponder it again ... if you still don't get it, ask for
some help.
Ingrates !
One of the few things I can post about France.
you're meaning that you know nothing about france ? i believe you ...
BTW can you unfold a little why you think the french are ingrates ? ...
it's interesting.
I add that The UK made many unconditional concessions to Germany with
the agreement of the French, since France almost abandoned its
diplomatic sovereignty to the UK from 1923 till WWII (why, will you say
? Because we needed them to face Germany. We needed allies).
Chamberlain said "yes" to the nazis about the rebuilding of the of the
german war fleet in 1935.
France wanted to respond to the German army's reoccupation of the
Rhineland in 1936, but the UK opposed the idea giving thereby Hitler the
greenlight for what he had in mind. They said that the remilitarization,
of the Rhineland wasn't a threat to our vital interests... you
understand what it means in diplomatical language, don't you ? ;-)
Yes it means that France was to scared to fight the German's alone. The US
It's explained in my post, wiseass ...
big trauma about WWI (will mock us for that though your country have a
trauma for a war were there were 50-55,000 ead US soldiers (vietnam) and
that didn't even devastated your country ... conceited immature chicken
WE FACED DIFFICULTY and HUGE CRISIS ... you didn't ... a little respect,
spoiled brat !
France : 41.9 millions
germany : 79.5 millions
wanted nothing to do with another war in Europe. France should have taken
the action it needed to do when Hitler broke the treaty. Instead they used
it as an excuse to do nothing.
already relied face the facts or forget it !
No plants destroyed in Germany, no
rebuilding in some parts of the
country ... in regions that have some economic importance (mines, steel
industry, etc ...) but The USA and the UK made us go away from the Ruhr
in 29 IIRC and abandon all german money for war reparations ... but we
were always in debts towards the allies (US mainly)
As for war debts I don't recall much repayment.
you don't recall it because you didn't learn it and didn't feel
concerned anyway ...
you found the history calss boring, right ?
World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States &
Britain, just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song...
You have to admit that the French people turned in Jews and collaborated
with any wish Hitler had.
well this has been replied ten thousand times here and in other NG by
groups.google.com type the adequate keywords and waggg, yann (IIRC he
replied very long and complete replies about it) gaetan moreau on
soc.culture.french too IIRC)
normally you should find very complete replies to your replies ... if
not post back and i'll give you some hints ... noble far-from-any-danger
hyperpower-inhabitant warrior ...
Oh I forgot : "France the collaborator", eh ? What about the free french
and De Gaulle, the 2nd DB (Koufrah, Bir Hakeim), General Leclerc, Jean
Moulin, FFI, 1st army of De Lattre, Monte Cassino (general Juin) etc...
The least you could do.
the least ? what would have been the normal level, noble conceited
spoiled lesson-giver, from your unpartial point of view ? (lol)
It was not a little affair... And BTW what you have to know is that the
germans had a "maginot line", the Siegfried line (even longer than ours)
Yes they built theirs correctly and had better strategy in spite of Hitler.
ours was correctly built we didn't do it till the sea for political
reasons ...
about the strategy yes ...
maybe an element of reply (i repost a part of a post imade some months
ago about it)
Oh ,BTW where were the USA ?
Obviously not fighting the Nazis ...
If you are not going to stand up for yourselves why should the US be blamed
oh ... I see your a troll .. i didn't get it ... i wrote tens of lines
to explain the stuff and what you manage to reply is : "If you are not
going to stand up for yourselves" ... i suggest you read one or two
times again for your own edification ...
about the USA ... it's about justice, democracy in the world ... etc ...
but i know that USA a sort of apartheid system untll the 60s so ...
for not doing it for you. We did have a President that got around many of
the prohibitions by congress and got supplies to Britain.
wow impressive !
The US had official links (embassy and all that)
with the nazis until they were bombed by the Japs and that Hitler and
Mussolini declared war to them ? What they were doing until the dawn of
1942 ? Selling for cash only (cash and carry law)..
. No wonder they had
3/4 the gold reserve of the world after WW2, they surely knew how to
take advantage of Nations fighting against nazism...
Yes we sold supplies to anyone as we were neutral. As for being a power we
why do you brag about it ? I would be in your shoes iwon't feel good for
that ... that's not great ... noble son of the true justice ... freedom
sewer ...
were one step away from Communism due to the depression. In 1940 the
Drafting of soldier passed by a single vote.
where the soldiers were fighting ? it was one year, 1.5 year before you
were attacked by nips and that the axis declared war to you ...
And by the way, the
US had links with illegitimate government of Vichy far into the war, and
recognized De Gaulle's government just few days before the Liberation.
Those links let go a lot of places we could not and get information we
needed. A majority of the French gave them legitimacy.
you're talking about who ? the people in France ? I explained you all
the stuff to have the background about Petain ? how could have they know
the future ... explain ...
According to classified documents from Dutch intelligence and US
government archives, President George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott
www.clamormagazine.org
www.ranknfile-ue.org
The 1941 affaire : When Washington was at war with the FREE FRENCH and
www.st-pierre-et-miquelon.com
http://www.hereinreality.com/familyvalues.html
http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm
BTW The French Fleet was under the Vichy's government control .... In
1942 when the german invaded the 'free' territory of France they
directed quickly towards the French Fleet at Toulon (South of France)
The French admiral gave the order to scuttle all the fleet in order that
the germans don't take it...
According to De Gaulle that lived in England at this time, England had
very few troops on their soil and if the germans had taken the french
fleet, they could have succeeded in invading England.
No way they could have invaded England even with the French Fleet. That
I'm glad to have you opinion, your a PhD in history and geostrategics,
right ?
can we knwo why you are so sure of that ... (I feel the stupidities
coming at fast pace ) lol you are all a bunch of stupid "romantic" XIX
th century-fashioned jingoes ! ...
you'er a heap of set ideas ....
would have brought the US in right away and Hitler did not want us in the
it'sesay to talk after ...
BTW why the UK were more important in the eyes of the USA than France ?
As you can see France (and others) suffered more of the war than USA ...
We protected our country and I for one make no apologies for the Atomic
LOL ... at this date USA were threatened by japan ? in which way bombing
civilians (anyway there were less dead people - yeah, children, women,
eldres - than in Dresden (250,000 or something like that IIRC - a lot
anyway - but what about the radioactivity ... the cancer, leukemia, etc
...)
bombs. One the other hand how would France have been free with our supplies
and troops?
I don' tunderstand your sentence ... can repeat it in another way,
please ? ...
France was a powerful realm.
A perfect description was. They have shown no gratitude for the Marshall
plan or the US defense during the cold war.
what is the link with what was written just above ? ? ? ?
anyway, we had gratitude for the marshall plan (that the result up to 85
% of gift from the US people not from the US government) - what would
you want have seen ... wasn't it human to help people of a ravaged
continent with millions of deads with no hope though the war pulled you
out of your huge economical crisis and made you the richest and leading
power in the world ...
about the cold war ... what ? what do you mean ... thank you ... yes ...
I must add that to escape the US prevalence De Gaulle left the NATO in
1966, and that we protected ourselves ... (we got enough nukes frome
about 1960 and the first french sattelite was launehed in 66 too IIRC)
And France attacks Green Peace? and cannot get away with it? Fred
25 yrs ago ... greenpeace had planned to stop our nuclear testing in
pcaific yep ... our agents were nabbed .. yep ... well, and what ... not
proud of it ... but in the intelligence services world ... such an
action it's not that surprising ... AFAIK.
axyz
2003-07-19 04:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by FRED WELLMAN
First of why does everything ever done have to benefit the Jews. Secondly I
never resorted to name calling and did not call you a nut.
Fred, this is actually a good sign. When you have beaten waggg's repeated lies
and false statements with logic and facts he avoids responding on the subject at
hand and begins calling names in an attempt to change the subject, so this is
actually waggg's admission of defeat. But even though you have beaten
him, keep in mind that even when you clearly disprove his false statements and
make him look like a total idiot, he will simply wait until you leave ANF and
AF and then he will begin to post the same false statements again.

If you get really good at beating him, as I have, no matter what subject you post
about, he will begin calling you a paranoid schizophrenic and he will direct all
follow-ups to alt.support.schizophrenia. When asked for the facts that result
in his professional diagnosis he seems to "forget" to respond.

Waggg is not interested in anything except spreading lies in desperate attempts to
glorify the pathetic turd filled toilet bowl of Europe, france.
Post by FRED WELLMAN
In WWII we were on your road to Berlin (yeah thank god, hitler and the
axis declaed war top you so you finally felt concerned about Europe and
you European relatives...)
Why are our relatives in Europe our responsibility? We came to America to
get away from them. Did the French fight for their relatives in Louisiana
during our civil war? NO. The British did fight for the French and British
loyalists in Canada during the war of 1812.
of your heart. If the French were on the road to Berlin before D_Day why
did we have to fight Germans to land on the continent?
Hurting the British was the goal. France sold the US the
and what ? ... Napo sold for nothing to continue his European wars and
keep France in a level of zeveryday life bearable ... war costs a lot
.. mainly when you have to keep an army watching a continent (small but
...)
If France sold the land for next to nothing it is not the fault of the US.
It was not a forced sale.
Louisiana purchase. In 1776 the French were a world power today they
still
think they are but they are not.
lol ... you US guys already spiel the same stuff ... why ?
What has France invented since 1940? For good or bad the US figured out how
to split the atom, and put a man on the moon. Name anything near that.
we are not a mega power ... but we are still quite important ... I won't
tell you a lot of exmaples cause i repeat the very same things again and
again ... so do some researches ... only some few facts ...
we are the 4th economic power in th world IIRC ..
And so afraid your culture will not hold up you destroy fast food outlets.
If people did not want them and eat there they would not be open
. we are one of the 5
nations having a permanent seat at the security council (with veto)
Because of misguided US policy after the war.
we are with germany the engine of EU (that we started with 6 others
countries in the 50s on our impetus), we are an important military power
(well of course if we compare with USA ... we are ridiculous but who can
compare with the USA nowadays ... the chinese are numerous but what a
technolical gap IIRC - and i admit the french army is not in a good
state anyway) - we are a space power (with other european nations that
along dacades joined us for the Ariane project" - we are a nuclear power
You just stated you could not do it without other countries and have you put
a man in space.
, we are good in medicine, etc...
We fought generally alone VS the whole Europe and we won, we possessed
almost the whole Europe during 15 yrs, Moscow burnt - who did this
things other than us ?
Germany for one.
yep they did it ... other ones ? (and anyway moscow didn't burn !)
Poland held cut longer than France did in WW 2. despite
wrong.
of your claims the US was doing a lot before Japan attacked the US.
LOL ... you're either a joker or uninformed ... some credible links ?
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450604a.html
http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/pages/t044/t04409.html
Not to mention an embargo against Japan.
Which was one of the primary reasons for the attack on Pearl Harbor...
Post by FRED WELLMAN
1914-1918 : The French army was the major military actor on the Western
front for 4 years. The British took a very active part on that front
for
4 years too. The allies under Marechal Foch's French command eventually
won the war. The American troops massively arrived on the front only 4
months (July 1918) before the end of the war (November 1918).
Western front March 1918 : 174 allies divisions : 99 French + 58
British
+ 12 Belgian + 3 US + 2 portuguese.
Western Front November 1918 : 211 Allies divisions : 104 French + 60
British + 30 US + 12 Belgian + 2 portuguese + 2 Italian + 1 Polish.
If the help of the US was not needed why didn't the war end before we
strange question, guy ! why should it have been finished befor you
arrived ? 4 years ... have you seen the stats ? have you seen the number
of US troopers ?
you think you arrived and that the germans were so afraid of the brave
US sioldiers that they fled and decidede to sign an armistice ?
No not our soldier but our supplies. If not for the US entry I doubt
Britain would have stayed in the war. Even so the Prussian subs were
getting better.
inform you... I think it's the better thing you could do ...
entered? Without US intervention France would have lost or be in a
constant
cold war.
I don't think so ... do you know the meaning of Blockade ? do you know
whjat was the economic state of our adversaries in 1918 ?
Stop spitting on the graves of the 1,500,000 dead French soldiers TIA.
Stop allowing the desecration of American Graves.
? ? ? some explanations coming ? i don't understand at all your sentence
Several cemeteries have be vandalized in France. What more explanation do
you need?
...
The USA that entered the war et the end of the war refused to hear
about
The result : Because of the Versailles's treaty as wanted by the USA
That is pure fiction the US told the British and the French that another
war
would come from the treaty. the US wanted a peace like WW2.
some neutral links ... my informations are differents ...
http://www.granada-learning.com/yitm/ww1/f_case_studies.html
(that won't
finally be recognized by the USA), the Italians that had
about 700,000 dead soldiers,
didn't have the territories that was promised to them
in secret agreements made in London in 1915. The Italians were totally
torqued and thought they were deceived,
what were indirectly one of the vectors causing the birth of the
fascism
in 1919.
Italy in WW2 could not even defeat Ethiopia without German help. For the
most part they were a small small faction in WW2.
you're wrong the italians were more active than you seem think (of
course they lost everywhere even against french that were at the very
same time crushed by the germans for a month !... and anyway the
weakness came partly from their obsolete equipments ... thei tanks for
instance were rolling coffins ...
And the Ethiopians had better tanks?
BTW USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a German
agression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.
Who attacked France in 1919? I don't remember anyone.
re-read my sentences and you'll see that i didn't say that there were a
war ... if you don't understand the meaning of my sentence ponder then
read again and ponder it again ... if you still don't get it, ask for
some help.
You state the "USA and Uk pledged that they will help France in case of a
German
aggression, pledge that will be abandoned in 1919 by both.". How?
Ingrates !
One of the few things I can post about France.
you're meaning that you know nothing about france ? i believe you ...
I know the actions of France since the 1950's have been anything like an
allies.
BTW can you unfold a little why you think the French are ingrates ? ...
it's interesting.
France only looks out for France and no one else. We have found large
amount of materials sold to Iraq in violation of Iraq for one.
I add that The UK made many unconditional concessions to Germany with
the agreement of the French, since France almost abandoned its
diplomatic sovereignty to the UK from 1923 till WWII (why, will you say
? Because we needed them to face Germany. We needed allies).
That is France's mistake not the US's.
Chamberlain said "yes" to the nazis about the rebuilding of the of the
german war fleet in 1935.
Yes he did and by invading Iraq we did not make the same mistakes.
France wanted to respond to the German army's reoccupation of the
Rhineland in 1936, but the UK opposed the idea giving thereby Hitler
the
greenlight for what he had in mind. They said that the
remilitarization,
of the Rhineland wasn't a threat to our vital interests... you
understand what it means in diplomatical language, don't you ? ;-)
Yes it means that France was to scared to fight the German's alone. The
US
It's explained in my post, wiseass ...
big trauma about WWI (will mock us for that though your country have a
trauma for a war were there were 50-55,000 ead US soldiers (vietnam) and
that didn't even devastated your country ... conceited immature chicken
WE FACED DIFFICULTY and HUGE CRISIS ... you didn't ... a little respect,
spoiled brat !
You have no idea of what age I am or my education. the US was anti-war
prior to WW1 because of the carnage of the Civil war. WW1 was no worse to
France than the Civil war was to us.
France : 41.9 millions
germany : 79.5 millions
wanted nothing to do with another war in Europe. France should have
taken
the action it needed to do when Hitler broke the treaty. Instead they
used
it as an excuse to do nothing.
already relied face the facts or forget it !
No plants destroyed in Germany, no
rebuilding in some parts of the
country ... in regions that have some economic importance (mines, steel
industry, etc ...) but The USA and the UK made us go away from the Ruhr
in 29 IIRC and abandon all german money for war reparations ... but we
were always in debts towards the allies (US mainly)
As for war debts I don't recall much repayment.
you don't recall it because you didn't learn it and didn't feel
concerned anyway ...
you found the history calss boring, right ?
No actually one of my favorite.
World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States &
Britain, just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song...
You have to admit that the French people turned in Jews and collaborated
with any wish Hitler had.
well this has been replied ten thousand times here and in other NG by
groups.google.com type the adequate keywords and waggg, yann (IIRC he
replied very long and complete replies about it) gaetan moreau on
soc.culture.french too IIRC)
normally you should find very complete replies to your replies ... if
not post back and i'll give you some hints ... noble far-from-any-danger
hyperpower-inhabitant warrior ...
Oh I forgot : "France the collaborator", eh ? What about the free
french
and De Gaulle, the 2nd DB (Koufrah, Bir Hakeim), General Leclerc, Jean
Moulin, FFI, 1st army of De Lattre, Monte Cassino (general Juin) etc...
The least you could do.
the least ? what would have been the normal level, noble conceited
spoiled lesson-giver, from your unpartial point of view ? (lol)
It was not a little affair... And BTW what you have to know is that the
germans had a "maginot line", the Siegfried line (even longer than
ours)
Yes they built theirs correctly and had better strategy in spite of
Hitler.
ours was correctly built we didn't do it till the sea for political
reasons ...
about the strategy yes ...
maybe an element of reply (i repost a part of a post imade some months
ago about it)
Oh ,BTW where were the USA ?
Obviously not fighting the Nazis ...
If you are not going to stand up for yourselves why should the US be
blamed
oh ... I see your a troll .. i didn't get it ... i wrote tens of lines
to explain the stuff and what you manage to reply is : "If you are not
going to stand up for yourselves" ... i suggest you read one or two
times again for your own edification ...
about the USA ... it's about justice, democracy in the world ... etc ...
but i know that USA a sort of apartheid system untll the 60s so ...
for not doing it for you. We did have a President that got around many
of
the prohibitions by congress and got supplies to Britain.
wow impressive !
The US had official links (embassy and all that)
with the nazis until they were bombed by the Japs and that Hitler and
Mussolini declared war to them ? What they were doing until the dawn of
1942 ? Selling for cash only (cash and carry law)..
. No wonder they had
3/4 the gold reserve of the world after WW2, they surely knew how to
take advantage of Nations fighting against nazism...
Yes we sold supplies to anyone as we were neutral. As for being a power
we
why do you brag about it ? I would be in your shoes iwon't feel good for
that ... that's not great ... noble son of the true justice ... freedom
sewer ...
were one step away from Communism due to the depression. In 1940 the
Drafting of soldier passed by a single vote.
where the soldiers were fighting ? it was one year, 1.5 year before you
were attacked by nips and that the axis declared war to you ...
And by the way, the
US had links with illegitimate government of Vichy far into the war,
and
recognized De Gaulle's government just few days before the Liberation.
Those links let go a lot of places we could not and get information we
needed. A majority of the French gave them legitimacy.
you're talking about who ? the people in France ? I explained you all
the stuff to have the background about Petain ? how could have they know
the future ... explain ...
According to classified documents from Dutch intelligence and US
government archives, President George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott
www.clamormagazine.org
www.ranknfile-ue.org
The 1941 affaire : When Washington was at war with the FREE FRENCH and
www.st-pierre-et-miquelon.com
http://www.hereinreality.com/familyvalues.html
http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm
BTW The French Fleet was under the Vichy's government control .... In
1942 when the german invaded the 'free' territory of France they
directed quickly towards the French Fleet at Toulon (South of France)
The French admiral gave the order to scuttle all the fleet in order
that
the germans don't take it...
According to De Gaulle that lived in England at this time, England had
very few troops on their soil and if the germans had taken the french
fleet, they could have succeeded in invading England.
No way they could have invaded England even with the French Fleet. That
I'm glad to have you opinion, your a PhD in history and geostrategics,
right ?
can we knwo why you are so sure of that ... (I feel the stupidities
coming at fast pace ) lol you are all a bunch of stupid "romantic" XIX
th century-fashioned jingoes ! ...
you'er a heap of set ideas ....
would have brought the US in right away and Hitler did not want us in the
it'sesay to talk after ...
BTW why the UK were more important in the eyes of the USA than France ?
As you can see France (and others) suffered more of the war than USA
...
We protected our country and I for one make no apologies for the Atomic
LOL ... at this date USA were threatened by japan ? in which way bombing
civilians (anyway there were less dead people - yeah, children, women,
eldres - than in Dresden (250,000 or something like that IIRC - a lot
anyway - but what about the radioactivity ... the cancer, leukemia, etc
...)
bombs. One the other hand how would France have been free with our
supplies
and troops?
I don' tunderstand your sentence ... can repeat it in another way,
please ? ...
France was a powerful realm.
A perfect description was. They have shown no gratitude for the Marshall
plan or the US defense during the cold war.
what is the link with what was written just above ? ? ? ?
anyway, we had gratitude for the marshall plan (that the result up to 85
% of gift from the US people not from the US government) - what would
you want have seen ... wasn't it human to help people of a ravaged
continent with millions of deads with no hope though the war pulled you
out of your huge economical crisis and made you the richest and leading
power in the world ...
about the cold war ... what ? what do you mean ... thank you ... yes ...
I must add that to escape the US prevalence De Gaulle left the NATO in
1966, and that we protected ourselves ... (we got enough nukes frome
about 1960 and the first french sattelite was launehed in 66 too IIRC)
You knew we would not let the USSR attack you. So you got out hoping that
if a nuclear war happened you would be spared. You would not have.
I gave you several links as you requested. I am stating a simple fact.
Right now a lot of the population in the US do not like France or George
Bush!
And France attacks Green Peace? and cannot get away with it? Fred
25 yrs ago ... greenpeace had planned to stop our nuclear testing in
pcaific yep ... our agents were nabbed .. yep ... well, and what ... not
proud of it ... but in the intelligence services world ... such an
action it's not that surprising ... AFAIK.
The peace loving French? Fred
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