Discussion:
Intifada in France - what the extremes of religious tolerance leads too...
(too old to reply)
X-A
2005-11-04 16:30:45 UTC
Permalink
It seems that the European extremism of "religious tolerance" is - once
again - coming back to BITE a European country.

However -- the solution is not more welfare for the rioters - but prison -
and the reality of the cold steel of prison doors slamming shut...

Then, after their prison terms, DEPORT this trash and slime back to
Algeria!!!

----
Intifada in France

The New York Sun, One SL, LLC
November 4, 2005 Friday

If President Chirac thought he was going to gain peace with the Muslim
community in France by taking an appeasement line in the Iraq war, it
certainly looks like he miscalculated. Today the streets of the French
capital are looking more like Ramallah and less like the advanced,
sophisticated, gay Paree image Monsieur Chirac likes to portray to the
world, and the story, which is just starting to grip the world's attention,
is full of ironies. One is tempted to suggest that Prime Minister Sharon
send a note cautioning Monsieur Chirac about cycles of violence.

Back in the 1990s, the French sneered at America for the Los Angeles riots.
As the Chicago Sun-Times reported in 1992: "the consensus of French pundits
is that something on the scale of the Los Angeles riots could not happen
here, mainly because France is a more humane, less racist place with a much
stronger commitment to social welfare programs." President Mitterrand, the
Washington Post reported in 1992, blamed the riots on the "conservative
society" that Presidents Reagan and Bush had created and said France is
different because it "is the country where the level of social protection is
the highest in the world."

How the times have changed. Muslims in Paris's suburbs are out shooting at
police and firefighters, burning cars and buildings, and throwing rocks at
commuter trains. Even children are out on the streets - it was reported that
a 10-year-old was arrested. The trigger for the riots was the electrocution
of two teenagers last Thursday, which the rioters say came following a
police chase, a charge the police deny. But even if the charge by the
rioters is true, that the police are culpable in the deaths of the two
youths, the fact that such an incident would spark a riot is a sign of
something deeper at work - no doubt France's failure to integrate its
immigrant Muslim community.

It turns out that France's Muslim community lives in areas rampant with
crime, poverty, and unemployment, much the fault of France's prized welfare
system. There are those of us who spent part of the 1980s in Europe,
supporting the idea, among others from the Reagan era, that immigration was
a virtue for a country and that the racial or religious background of the
immigrants did not matter. We maintain that view. But immigration into a
country with a dirigiste economy is a recipe for trouble, which is why
supporters of immigration into France have long warned of the need for
liberalization.

Part of France's problem is that it has defaulted on those measures. The
lack of labor market flexibility and other socialist policies have created
unemployment at nearly 10%, most of which falls among immigrants. And part
stems from the fact that France's estimated 5 million Muslims, out of a
population of 60 million, are led by mostly foreign radical imams. Only
belatedly has the French state started taking action, pressing for clerics
to be taught in France. All this is compounded by the image France projects
of itself to its Muslims, which one can surmise is the reason why Muslims
see rioting as the solution to any grievance.

It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to the Iraq war
out of fear of how his Muslim population would react. This fear is a big
part of why France portrays itself as America's counterweight and why it
criticizes Israel at every turn and coddled the terrorist Yasser Arafat
right up to his death. This doesn't elicit thanks from Muslim radicals in
France. It turns out to project an image of weakness. Unsurprisingly when
faced with some unhappiness they believe they can pressure the French state
into submission.

A number of observers of the French scene have looked at population trends
and suggested that France is on its way to becoming a Muslim country (one
that would, let it be noted, be armed with hydrogen bombs). Some react to
this by suggesting a halt to immigration and even expulsion. The better
approach is to impose law and order, more speedily to reform the burdensome
welfare state, and start integrating the Muslim community. France could also
help itself by dispatching troops to help battle the radical Islamists in
Iraq, thereby sending a message to Muslims at home and abroad that France is
on the side of those Muslims, the majority no doubt, who want to live in
peace.
X-A
2005-11-04 16:54:33 UTC
Permalink
==> It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to the Iraq
war
out of fear of how his Muslim population would react. This fear is a big
part of why France portrays itself as America's counterweight and why it
criticizes Israel at every turn and coddled the terrorist Yasser Arafat
right up to his death. This doesn't elicit thanks from Muslim radicals in
France. It turns out to project an image of weakness. Unsurprisingly when
faced with some unhappiness they believe they can pressure the French state
into submission.
===>
Alex B
2005-11-04 17:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by X-A
==> It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to the Iraq
war
out of fear of how his Muslim population would react. This fear is a big
part of why France portrays itself as America's counterweight and why it
criticizes Israel at every turn and coddled the terrorist Yasser Arafat
right up to his death. This doesn't elicit thanks from Muslim radicals in
France. It turns out to project an image of weakness. Unsurprisingly when
faced with some unhappiness they believe they can pressure the French state
into submission.
===>
This is false, France didn't follow the US in Iraq because it thinks
it's a huge mistake , like most Euopean do, and like Americans start to
realize too.

What's happening in the suburbs now is the same problem other European
countries face : massive muslim immigration and has nothing to to with
Iraq !
John of Aix
2005-11-04 18:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex B
Post by X-A
==> It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to
the Iraq war
out of fear of how his Muslim population would react. This fear is a
big part of why France portrays itself as America's counterweight
and why it criticizes Israel at every turn and coddled the terrorist
Yasser Arafat right up to his death. This doesn't elicit thanks from
Muslim radicals in France. It turns out to project an image of
weakness. Unsurprisingly when faced with some unhappiness they
believe they can pressure the French state into submission.
===>
This is false, France didn't follow the US in Iraq because it thinks
it's a huge mistake , like most Euopean do, and like Americans start
to realize too.
What's happening in the suburbs now is the same problem other European
countries face : massive muslim immigration and has nothing to to with
Iraq !
No it isn't immmigration for most of those involved, and often their
parents, were born here. It is a question of integration, not
immigration.
George
2005-11-05 02:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by John of Aix
Post by Alex B
Post by X-A
==> It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to
the Iraq war
out of fear of how his Muslim population would react. This fear is a
big part of why France portrays itself as America's counterweight
and why it criticizes Israel at every turn and coddled the terrorist
Yasser Arafat right up to his death. This doesn't elicit thanks from
Muslim radicals in France. It turns out to project an image of
weakness. Unsurprisingly when faced with some unhappiness they
believe they can pressure the French state into submission.
===>
This is false, France didn't follow the US in Iraq because it thinks
it's a huge mistake , like most Euopean do, and like Americans start
to realize too.
What's happening in the suburbs now is the same problem other European
countries face : massive muslim immigration and has nothing to to with
Iraq !
No it isn't immmigration for most of those involved, and often their
parents, were born here. It is a question of integration, not
immigration.
Exactly. Until France ends its ethnic aparteid, and more fully integrates
its society, there will always be this kind of strife.
aether
2005-11-05 04:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
Exactly. Until France ends its ethnic aparteid, and more fully integrates
its society, there will always be this kind of strife.<<<

Full integration with subhumans would result in the end of humanity.

At least in the West.
George
2005-11-05 05:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by aether
Post by George
Exactly. Until France ends its ethnic aparteid, and more fully integrates
its society, there will always be this kind of strife.<<<
Full integration with subhumans would result in the end of humanity.
At least in the West.
That kind of ad hominem attitude goes both ways, of course, and is part of
the problem all societies are facing today, but nowhere, perhaps more so
than France today. So, if you are a part of the problem, you aren't likely
to be a part of the solution.
aether
2005-11-05 06:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Humans are not equal.

Equality is a myth.

'Multiculturalism' is national suicide.
George
2005-11-05 06:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by aether
Humans are not equal.
Equality is a myth.
'Multiculturalism' is national suicide.
Like I said before. You are part of the problem. But then, you know that
already.
Jeff Jenson
2005-11-07 19:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
Post by aether
Humans are not equal.
Equality is a myth.
'Multiculturalism' is national suicide.
Like I said before. You are part of the problem. But then, you know that
already.
Actually aether is quite right.

Cultures aren't equal.

Ideas aren't equal.

People aren't equal.

France is getting what it deserves for them embracing Multiculturalism
like they do.

I hope the American people wake up before what is happening in France
happens here.

Actually, I don't think it will be the Muslims here. It will be the
Mexicans in the Border states and especially in California.

Multi-Culturalism doesn't work!
John of Aix
2005-11-05 08:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by aether
Post by George
Exactly. Until France ends its ethnic aparteid, and more fully integrates
its society, there will always be this kind of strife.<<<
Full integration with subhumans would result in the end of humanity.
Yes but until you and your ilk die we just have to put up with it.
aether
2005-11-05 23:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by John of Aix
Post by aether
Post by George
Exactly. Until France ends its ethnic aparteid, and more fully integrates
its society, there will always be this kind of strife.<<<
Full integration with subhumans would result in the end of humanity.
Yes but until you and your ilk die we just have to put up with it.
Individuals like you, who are more concerned about those making the
proper evaluations of society, instead of properly focusing your
attention on the people wrecking society with their criminality and bad
genes, should be sent to forced labor camps and worked to death. You're
useless, and people like you are killing the West. Sheer vermin.
X-A
2005-11-07 18:59:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
Exactly. Until France ends its ethnic aparteid, and more fully integrates
its society, there will always be this kind of strife.
Sure - but France is not an Islamic country, nor should it give the rioters
what they want. If the French government gives the rioters what they want,
then the use of violence and rioting will become the FIRST means to get what
you want.

I suspect, with the blessings of European leftists/communists, these
"oppressed youths" are trying to get special treatment and privileges that
other immigrants actually work for...

Only those minority immigrants that DO NOT take part in violence should be
listened to... that rioters should be arrested, prosecuted and deported - no
exceptions - based of religion and skin color!

Integration into France should mean that the loyalties of the immigrant
should be toward France, not Islam, nor the nation that the immigrant came
from. Loyalty to your new nation, especially in a democracy, means that you
love your nation and that you use the democratic process to redress
grievances...This include adapting the idea that you are, yourself, to make
an effort to become part of the nation.

To be a citizen of a nation should mean loyalty to the nation, not a
religion and nation of origin! If an immigrant cannot love France that much
to where they "must riot" then the French people should DEPORT these scum!

The reason why France is having trouble responding is that "religious
tolerance" has take extremist turns in Europe in general. To arrest and
prosecute these "oppressed youths" will - no doubt - be called "racist" by
the Europe's leftist/ communist ilk. What we all need to do is to arrest
these "oppressed youths," prosecute them - and deport them, along with their
parents. If they cannot be loyal to their French nation - DEPORT both them
and their parents!

For example - what do you think the reaction might be on the part of the
French government if these where football hooligans reacting to a loss by
the national team instead of so-called "oppressed youths?!"
George
2005-11-07 19:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by X-A
Post by George
Exactly. Until France ends its ethnic aparteid, and more fully integrates
its society, there will always be this kind of strife.
Sure - but France is not an Islamic country, nor should it give the rioters
what they want. If the French government gives the rioters what they want,
then the use of violence and rioting will become the FIRST means to get what
you want.
I don't think I suggested that the French government should appease the
rioters. On the contrary. They should be treated like any other
criminals. Of course France is not an Islamic country, and I am in no way
suggesting that it should become Islamic. What I am suggesting is that if
you immigrate to another country, you should learn to integrate into that
society, learn its laws and obey them, etc. This does not mean that you
have to adopt all of their cultural practices, or their religion, whatever
that may be. However, France has not made any serious attempt to integrate
them into French society. Instead, they have allowed many minorities to
set up their own mini-homelands (or hell lands, if you prefer). Hell, I'm
surprised they haven't given them autonomy. Most Europeans who moved to
France have integrated into French society. A large proportion of the
Muslim population has not. They remain an isolated group, and this is the
problem. They don't see themselves as French, nor, apparently, do they
want to see themselves as French. But then, France has made little effort
to integrate these immigrants, and instead, has encouraged a kind of
Parisian aparteid on them and other minorities as well. Anyway, that's my
take on it.

<snip>
Post by X-A
For example - what do you think the reaction might be on the part of the
French government if these where football hooligans reacting to a loss by
the national team instead of so-called "oppressed youths?!"
I agree.
John of Aix
2005-11-04 18:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by X-A
==> It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to
the Iraq war
It iosn't a secret at all fuckwit.
Post by X-A
out of fear of how his Muslim population would react.
Bwahahahahahahaha
Post by X-A
This fear is a
big part of why France portrays itself as America's counterweight and
why it criticizes Israel at every turn and coddled the terrorist
Yasser Arafat right up to his death. This doesn't elicit thanks from
Muslim radicals in France. It turns out to project an image of
weakness. Unsurprisingly when faced with some unhappiness they
believe they can pressure the French state into submission.
Don't they have any sort of social programmes for mental defectives
where you live? Probbaly not in that backward and benighted country if
it is the USA.
George
2005-11-05 02:12:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John of Aix
Post by X-A
==> It's a barely kept secret that Mr. Chirac led the opposition to
the Iraq war
It iosn't a secret at all fuckwit.
Post by X-A
out of fear of how his Muslim population would react.
Bwahahahahahahaha
No? How do you explain France's obvious inability to stop this riot?
John of Aix
2005-11-04 18:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by X-A
It seems that the European extremism of "religious tolerance" is -
once again - coming back to BITE a European country.
You haven't the slightest fucking idea of what is going on, of France,
of its population or what people think. Get back to your football,
fucking your sister and eating shit. If you have a moment try enrolling
in an education programme.
George
2005-11-05 02:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by X-A
It seems that the European extremism of "religious tolerance" is -
once again - coming back to BITE a European country.
You haven't the slightest fucking idea of what is going on, of France, of
its population or what people think. Get back to your football, fucking
your sister and eating shit. If you have a moment try enrolling in an
education programme.
How about trying to refute his claim instead of relying on ad hominem
responses?
U***@yahoo.com
2005-11-06 06:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by John of Aix
Post by X-A
It seems that the European extremism of "religious tolerance" is -
once again - coming back to BITE a European country.
You haven't the slightest fucking idea of what is going on, of France,
of its population or what people think. Get back to your football,
fucking your sister and eating shit. If you have a moment try enrolling
in an education programme.
So you dropped your single fucking point and are now simply typing
insults. An Algerian must have skull fucked that one idea out of your
pea brain. How'd that blast of splooge taste you dumb fuck. Get used to
it. You and your mother'll be eating more.
aether
2005-11-06 22:09:45 UTC
Permalink
This 'John of Aix' character is nothing more than a pseudo-Bolshevik
faggot.
X-A
2005-11-07 19:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by John of Aix
Post by X-A
It seems that the European extremism of "religious tolerance" is -
once again - coming back to BITE a European country.
You haven't the slightest fucking idea of what is going on, of France,
of its population or what people think. Get back to your football,
fucking your sister and eating shit. If you have a moment try enrolling
in an education programme.
WOW WHAT INTELLIGENCE !
WOW - I'm sooooo offended!
booohooo...!

Use of personal insults - you lose the argument by default...

Educational program ? I am in a Master's program in European studies... and
you?!

What kind of response do you think that Charles de Gaulle would have to
these riots?!

He would probably kick all the "oppressed youths" out of the country...
... and mandate that the rest of the "oppressed immigrants" get with the
program and become "French" or get off of French soil!

De Gaulle was such a sweet kind of French nationalist!
George
2005-11-07 19:39:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by X-A
Post by John of Aix
Post by X-A
It seems that the European extremism of "religious tolerance" is -
once again - coming back to BITE a European country.
You haven't the slightest fucking idea of what is going on, of France,
of its population or what people think. Get back to your football,
fucking your sister and eating shit. If you have a moment try enrolling
in an education programme.
WOW WHAT INTELLIGENCE !
WOW - I'm sooooo offended!
booohooo...!
Use of personal insults - you lose the argument by default...
Educational program ? I am in a Master's program in European studies... and
you?!
What kind of response do you think that Charles de Gaulle would have to
these riots?!
He would probably kick all the "oppressed youths" out of the country...
... and mandate that the rest of the "oppressed immigrants" get with the
program and become "French" or get off of French soil!
De Gaulle was such a sweet kind of French nationalist!
While I can't say that I'm a fan of de Gaulle, the thoughts you expressed,
above, had occurred to me.

Loading...